As we move beyond the five-hundred-year anniversary of the Protestant reformulation on October 31, 2017, it is good for us to look back and examine how that all worked out for them. For, how are we to judge the fruit of a tree over the last 500 years unless we first examine the roots of that tree? Therefore, let us start from the beginning and blink our eyes at the 38 Most Ridiculous things that Martin Luther, the illustrious Father of Protestantism and the Bible-Only (sola-scriptura) movement, said. It is still hard to believe how we allowed and still allow this very plain instrument of Satan to divide God’s people . . .
Martin Luther on the Dignity and Majesty of God
- “I look upon God no better than a scoundrel” (ref. Weimar, Vol. 1, Pg. 487. Cf. Table Talk, No. 963).
- “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.” (ref. Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107. – What a great blasphemy from a man who is regarded as “great reformer”!).
- “I have greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ” (ref. Table Talk, 2397b).
- “It does not matter how Christ behaved – what He taught is all that matters” (ref. Erlangen Vol. 29, Pg. 126).
Martin Luther on the 10 Commandments
- “[The commandments] only purpose is to show man his impotence to do good and to teach him to despair of himself” (ref: Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), Volume III, p. 364).
- “We must remove the Decalogue out of sight and heart” (ref. De Wette 4, 188)
- “If we allow them – the Commandments – any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies” (ref. Comm. ad Galat, p.310).
- “It is more important to guard against good works than against sin.” (ref. Trischreden, Wittenberg Edition, Vol. VI., p. 160).
Martin Luther on the Material Necessity of Good Works
- “Good works are bad and are sin like the rest.” (ref. Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. III, pg. 47).
- “There is no scandal greater, more dangerous, more venomous, than a good outward life, manifested by good works and a pious mode of life. That is the grand portal, the highway that leads to damnation.” (ref. Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 128).
Martin Luther on the Importance of Free-Will
- “…with regard to God, and in all that bears on salvation or damnation, (man) has no ‘free-will’, but is a captive, prisoner and bond slave, either to the will of God, or to the will of Satan.” (ref. From the essay, ‘Bondage of the Will,’ ‘Martin Luther: Selections From His Writings, ed. by Dillenberger, Anchor Books, 1962 p. 190).
- “Man is like a horse. Does God leap into the saddle? The horse is obedient and accommodates itself to every movement of the rider and goes whither he wills it. Does God throw down the reins? Then Satan leaps upon the back of the animal, which bends, goes and submits to the spurs and caprices of its new rider… Therefore, necessity, not free will, is the controlling principle of our conduct. God is the author of what is evil as well as of what is good, and, as He bestows happiness on those who merit it not, so also does He damn others who deserve not their fate.” (ref. ‘De Servo Arbitrio’, 7, 113 seq., quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, pp. 266-267).
- “His (Judas) will was the work of God; God by His almighty power moved his will as He does all that is in this world.” (ref. De servo Arbitrio, against man’s free will).
- “No good work happens as the result of one’s own wisdom; but everything must happen in a stupor . . . Reason must be left behind for it is the enemy of faith.” (ref. Trischreden, Weimer VI, 143, 25-35).
Martin Luther on Christian Living
- “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.” (ref. ‘Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;’ ‘The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. – Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404))
- “Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes.” (ref. J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248).
Martin Luther on Capital Punishment and Charity
- “If some were to teach doctrines contradicting an article of faith clearly grounded in Scripture and believed throughout the world by all Christendom, such as the articles we teach children in the Creed — for example, if anyone were to teach that Christ is not God, but a mere man and like other prophets, as the Turks and the Anabaptists hold — such teachers shuold not be tolerated, but punished as blasphemers . . . By this procedure no one is compelled to believe, for he can still believe what he will; but he is forbidden to teach and to blaspheme.” (ref. Luther’s Works [LW], Vol. 13, 61-62)
- “That seditious articles of doctrine should be punished by the sword needed no further proof. For the rest, the Anabaptists hold tenets relating to infant baptism, original sin, and inspiration, which have no connection with the Word of God, and are indeed opposed to it . . . Secular authorities are also bound to restrain and punish avowedly false doctrine . . . For think what disaster would ensue if children were not baptized? . . . Besides this the Anabaptists separate themselves from the churches . . . and they set up a ministry and congregation of their own, which is also contrary to the command of God. From all this it becomes clear that the secular authorities are bound . . . to inflict corporal punishment on the offenders . . . Also when it is a case of only upholding some spiritual tenet, such as infant baptism, original sin, and unnecessary separation, then . . . we conclude that . . . the stubborn sectaries must be put to death.” (ref. pamphlet of 1536; in Johannes Janssen, History of the German People From the Close of the Middle Ages, 16 volumes, translated by A.M. Christie, St. Louis: B. Herder, 1910 [orig. 1891]; Vol. X, 222-223)
Martin Luther on Social Justice
- “Peasants are no better than straw. They will not hear the word and they are without sense; therefore they must be compelled to hear the crack of the whip and the whiz of bullets and it is only what they deserve.” (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).
- “To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs” (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).
- “Like the drivers of donkeys, who have to belabor the donkeys incessantly with rods and whips, or they will not obey, so must the ruler do with the people; they must drive, beat throttle, hang, burn, behead and torture, so as to make themselves feared and to keep the people in check.” (ref. Erlangen Vol 15, Pg. 276).
Adolf HitlerMartin Luther on the Love of Jews - “My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire… Second, that all their books– their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible– be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted…Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country…Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it… He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities, or else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away”. (ref. Martin Luther; On the Jews and Their Lies, translated by Martin H. Bertram, Fortress Press, 1955).
- “Burn their synagogues. Forbid them all that I have mentioned above. Force them to work and treat them with every kind of severity, as Moses did in the desert and slew three thousand… If that is no use, we must drive them away like mad dogs, in order that we may not be partakers of their abominable blasphemy and of all their vices, and in order that we may not deserve the anger of God and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Let everyone see how he does his. I am excused.” (ref. About the Jews and Their Lies,’ quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 290).
- “If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham” (ref. Grisar, “Luther”, Vol. V. pg. 413).
- “The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary thieves.” (ref. Weimar, Vol. 53, Pg. 502).
Martin Luther on the Sanctity and Dignity of Marriage
- “If the husband is unwilling, there is another who is; if the wife is unwilling, then let the maid come.” (ref. Of Married Life).
- “Suppose I should counsel the wife of an impotent man, with his consent, to giver herself to another, say her husband’s brother, but to keep this marriage secret and to ascribe the children to the so-called putative father. The question is: Is such a women in a saved state? I answer, certainly.” (ref. On Marriage).
- “It is not in opposition to the Holy Scriptures for a man to have several wives.” (ref. De Wette, Vol. 2, p. 459).
- “The word and work of God is quite clear, viz., that women are made to be either wives or prostitutes.” (ref. On Married Life).
- “In spite of all the good I say of married life, I will not grant so much to nature as to admit that there is no sin in it. .. no conjugal due is ever rendered without sin. The matrimonial duty is never performed without sin.” (ref. Weimar, Vol 8. Pg. 654. In other words for Luther the matrimonial act is “a sin differing in nothing from adultery and fornication.” ibid. What then is the purpose of marriage for Luther you may ask? Luther affirms that it’s simply to satisfy one’s sexual cravings “The body asks for a women and must have it” or again “To marry is a remedy for fornication” – Grisar, “Luther”, vol. iv, pg. 145).
Martin Luther on the Quality of Edifying Speech
- “What harm could it do if a man told a good lusty lie in a worthy cause and for the sake of the Christian Churches?” (ref. Lenz: Briefwechsel, Vol. 1. Pg. 373).
- “To lie in a case of necessity or for convenience or in excuse – such lying would not be against God; He was ready to take such lies on Himself” (ref. Lenz: Briefwechsel, Vol. 1. Pg. 375).
Martin Luther on Humility
- “St. Augustine or St. Ambrosius cannot be compared with me.” (ref. Erlangen, Vol. 61, pg. 422).
- “What I teach and write remains true even though the whole world should fall to pieces over it” (ref. Weimar, Vol. 18, Pg. 401).
Martin Luther on the value of Sacred Scripture
- “To my mind it (the book of the Apocalypse) bears upon it no marks of an apostolic or prophetic character… Everyone may form his own judgment of this book; as for myself, I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it.” (ref. ammtliche Werke, 63, pp. 169-170, ‘The Facts About Luther,’ O’Hare, TAN Books, 1987, p. 203).
- “If your Papist annoys you with the word (‘alone’ – Rom. 3:28), tell him straightway, Dr. Martin Luther will have it so: Papist and ass are one and the same thing. Whoever will not have my translation, let him give it the go-by: the devil’s thanks to him who censures it without my will and knowledge. Luther will have it so, and he is a doctor above all the doctors in Popedom.” (ref. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127,’The Facts About Luther,’ O’Hare, TAN Books, 1987, p. 201. Cf. Also J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 138).
- “The history of Jonah is so monstrous that it is absolutely incredible.” (ref. The Facts About Luther, O’Hare, TAN Books, 1987, p. 202).
- “…the epistle of St. James is an epistle full of straw, because it contains nothing evangelical.” (ref. ‘Preface to the New Testament,’ ed. Dillenberger, p. 19. – Cf. Also Jean Janssen, L’Allemagne et la Reforme. (Trans. E. Paris, Plon, 1887-1911). Vol II, Pg. 218).
– For more great quotes from the Father of Protestantism, visit Luther, Exposing the Myth. Also, check out my book Dead on Arrival: The Seven Fatal Errors of Sola-Scriptura.
9/16/13 – Addendum:
Even though you can find all of these quotes online, this compilation, ever since its publication, has received a lot of attention from our brothers and sisters in the protesting community. I have read all the comments on the blogs and message boards linked to this article, and here are some of their conclusions. (1) The book Table Talk is not a reliable reference for Martin Luther’s work (ONLY TWO quotes above come from Table Talk). (2) There is a problem with translating some of the quotes because some are from German or Latin to French to English rather than from German or Latin to English. (4) Luther’s violent comments against the peasants are to be contextualized in light of the Peasant Revolt in which he sided with the German Princes. (5) Luther’s violent comments against the Jews are to be contextualized in light of his disappointment that they didn’t receive his reformulation of the Gospel. (6) Luther’s comments against Scripture are true. (7) Luther’s comments against monogamous marriage are true (probably). (8) Luther’s violent comments against the Anabaptists are true, (9) Luther’s comments against the Catholic understanding of Freewill are true, and (10) The only writings of Luther that conservative Lutheran pastors are required to subscribe to (because they strictly reflect biblical doctrine) are the Small Catechism, the Large Catechism, and the Smalkald Articles.
Regarding one of the sources of this compilation (Luther, Exposing the Myth), Reformed protester and Martin Luther Apologist James Swan of William Paterson University has written a detailed critique. In crafting this compilation, I considered Swan’s response and ended up not including many of the quotes he had a good case against. In some cases, Swan was spot on, but in other cases, he would have been much better off not trying to contextualize or excuse Luther. In those cases, Swan’s intellectual honesty is betrayed by his passion for Luther.
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Do you have anything nutty from John Calvin?
David L. Gray don't be silly. Luther was ordained and taught theology at Wittenberg.
20 “To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs” (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A HELL PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT?????????????????
1, do you think that Dr. LUTER taught to kill peasants and that it is not sin against God's ten commandments???????????? 2, had lutherans and other protestants been killing peasants throughout Globe since then??? not at all!!!!
dear all , please do not doubt, it is all list of blemish ideas which were propagated by his opponents . the opponents did all these spoils in retaliation to his teachings and you know they distorted his teaching and books and re fabricated them with blasphemous points. ignore them , the work has been done.
to God be the glory , more than a billion souls have been saved through FAITH in CHRIST, And SATAN HAS LOST THE BATTLE
NEXTT , I WILL POST CORE TEACHINGS OF LUTTER :
here is core of teachings of luther:
What Lutherans Believe
The answer to the question "What is a Lutheran?" can really only be answered by looking at the teachings of the Lutheran Church. Although the scope of this little tract does not allow a complete discussion of such teachings, a general idea can be given.
Lutheran teaching can be summed up by what are called the "Three Alones": (1) Grace Alone; (2) Faith Alone; (3) Scripture Alone.
Grace Alone
A Lutheran believes in "Grace Alone." That is, a Lutheran believes that on the basis of God's Holy Word that a person is forgiven and enters heaven by God's grace alone. The Biblical word "grace" refers to God's attitude of undeserved kindness toward us. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9).
It is not our conduct or performance that moves God to save us, it is his grace that moves God to save us. In fact, we can't do a thing to save ourselves. According to the Bible we are dead in sin (read Eph. 2:1; Romans 5:6). But God offers us full forgiveness and heaven as a free gift because Jesus lived and died to atone for our sin. Our salvation is not teamwork between us and God. It is not a matter of us doing our part and God doing His. We are not saved by God's grace plus our good works or anything we do. We are not saved by God's grace plus anything. We are saved by God's grace ALONE.
We don't deserve this. What we do deserve is eternal punishment in hell for our sin. But God, because Jesus bore our punishment on the cross, gives us what we don't deserve: eternal life. "For the wages of sin is death. But the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
Faith Alone
A Lutheran also believes that we are forgiven and enter heaven by "Faith Alone." "For we maintain that a man is justified [declared innocent, righteous] by faith, apart from the works of the law" (Romans 3:28). Throughout the history of the Church, Christians have been tempted to believe that faith in Jesus as Savior (or faith in the Gospel promise) is not enough. They have been tempted to believe that something WE do must be added to faith: our keeping of God's Commandments, our love, our holiness, our victory over sin, or something else that we do. But the Scriptures consistently teach that we are saved through faith plus NOTHING. We are saved by faith ALONE.
Since God truly promises heaven as a gift to the human race on account of Christ, then there is only one way to receive a promised gift: faith. The moment we think that our entrance into heaven is contingent upon our conduct in any way, at that moment heaven ceases to be a gift and begins to be something we have earned and deserve. For a gift to remain a gift it must simply be received. Faith in Jesus as Savior is the open hand that receives God's gift of salvation. "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him may not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
Scripture Alone
A Lutheran believes in "Scripture Alone." That is, a Lutheran believes that all teaching that claims to be Christian is to be drawn from the Bible alone. The canonical books of the Bible are the only source, the only authority, and the only judge of Christian teaching. When the question is raised, "is this teaching or practice Christian?" the Holy Scriptures are the highest Court of Appeals and only they can decide the matter.
The reason the Bible is such an authority for Lutherans is because we believe that Holy Scripture is not merely the word of man; it is also the inspired and inerrant Word of God himself. The human authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write down exactly what they did. Every word of the canonical Bible is the Word of God. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Timothy 3:16) and "Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21).
The Lutheran Confessions
For a fuller discussion of what Lutherans believe one need only turn to a group of writings called "the Lutheran Confessions." Written by Martin Luther and others, these are historical statements of faith taken from the Bible that Lutherans believe to be a correct exposition of God's Word. They provide a standard of what is truly Lutheran and what is not. They include the three ecumenical creeds (Apostles', Nicene, and Athanasian), the Augsburg Confession of 1530, as well as seven other Confessions. They are gathered together in the "Book Of Concord of 1580."
In Conclusion
The Lutheran Church, when faithful to its historical roots and Confessions, is a Biblically conservative Church made up of joyful and committed Christians serving their crucified and risen Lord. Anyone searching for a Church that truly teaches the Bible need look no further.
Dr. Richard P. Bucher
here is core of teachings of luther:
What Lutherans Believe
The answer to the question “What is a Lutheran?” can really only be answered by looking at the teachings of the Lutheran Church. Although the scope of this little tract does not allow a complete discussion of such teachings, a general idea can be given.
Lutheran teaching can be summed up by what are called the “Three Alones”: (1) Grace Alone; (2) Faith Alone; (3) Scripture Alone.
Grace Alone
A Lutheran believes in “Grace Alone.” That is, a Lutheran believes that on the basis of God’s Holy Word that a person is forgiven and enters heaven by God’s grace alone. The Biblical word “grace” refers to God’s attitude of undeserved kindness toward us. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9).
It is not our conduct or performance that moves God to save us, it is his grace that moves God to save us. In fact, we can’t do a thing to save ourselves. According to the Bible we are dead in sin (read Eph. 2:1; Romans 5:6). But God offers us full forgiveness and heaven as a free gift because Jesus lived and died to atone for our sin. Our salvation is not teamwork between us and God. It is not a matter of us doing our part and God doing His. We are not saved by God’s grace plus our good works or anything we do. We are not saved by God’s grace plus anything. We are saved by God’s grace ALONE.
We don’t deserve this. What we do deserve is eternal punishment in hell for our sin. But God, because Jesus bore our punishment on the cross, gives us what we don’t deserve: eternal life. “For the wages of sin is death. But the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
Faith Alone
A Lutheran also believes that we are forgiven and enter heaven by “Faith Alone.” “For we maintain that a man is justified [declared innocent, righteous] by faith, apart from the works of the law” (Romans 3:28). Throughout the history of the Church, Christians have been tempted to believe that faith in Jesus as Savior (or faith in the Gospel promise) is not enough. They have been tempted to believe that something WE do must be added to faith: our keeping of God’s Commandments, our love, our holiness, our victory over sin, or something else that we do. But the Scriptures consistently teach that we are saved through faith plus NOTHING. We are saved by faith ALONE.
Since God truly promises heaven as a gift to the human race on account of Christ, then there is only one way to receive a promised gift: faith. The moment we think that our entrance into heaven is contingent upon our conduct in any way, at that moment heaven ceases to be a gift and begins to be something we have earned and deserve. For a gift to remain a gift it must simply be received. Faith in Jesus as Savior is the open hand that receives God’s gift of salvation. “For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him may not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).
Scripture Alone
A Lutheran believes in “Scripture Alone.” That is, a Lutheran believes that all teaching that claims to be Christian is to be drawn from the Bible alone. The canonical books of the Bible are the only source, the only authority, and the only judge of Christian teaching. When the question is raised, “is this teaching or practice Christian?” the Holy Scriptures are the highest Court of Appeals and only they can decide the matter.
The reason the Bible is such an authority for Lutherans is because we believe that Holy Scripture is not merely the word of man; it is also the inspired and inerrant Word of God himself. The human authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write down exactly what they did. Every word of the canonical Bible is the Word of God. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16) and “Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21).
The Lutheran Confessions
For a fuller discussion of what Lutherans believe one need only turn to a group of writings called “the Lutheran Confessions.” Written by Martin Luther and others, these are historical statements of faith taken from the Bible that Lutherans believe to be a correct exposition of God’s Word. They provide a standard of what is truly Lutheran and what is not. They include the three ecumenical creeds (Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian), the Augsburg Confession of 1530, as well as seven other Confessions. They are gathered together in the “Book Of Concord of 1580.”
In Conclusion
The Lutheran Church, when faithful to its historical roots and Confessions, is a Biblically conservative Church made up of joyful and committed Christians serving their crucified and risen Lord. Anyone searching for a Church that truly teaches the Bible need look no further.
Dr. Richard P. Bucher
20 “To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs” (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A HELL PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT?????????????????
1, do you think that Dr. LUTER taught to kill peasants and that it is not sin against God’s ten commandments???????????? 2, had lutherans and other protestants been killing peasants throughout Globe since then??? not at all!!!!
dear all , please do not doubt, it is all list of blemish ideas which were propagated by his opponents . the opponents did all these spoils in retaliation to his teachings and you know they distorted his teaching and books and re fabricated them with blasphemous points. ignore them , the work has been done.
to God be the glory , more than a billion souls have been saved through FAITH in CHRIST, And SATAN HAS LOST THE BATTLE
NEXTT , I WILL POST CORE TEACHINGS OF LUTTER :
You’re a true believer. If you read that Luther said Anabaptists ought to be drowned to “baptize” them properly, you would do it. Hey, he did say that! Go to it man!
People are making their comments either pro/con on this article. But one thing I'm sure of is that Hitler used a lot of Luther's writings to promote his agenda. I think in that light, enough said. But on a personal note, a Christian is a Christian, but, Faith without Works was mentioned only one time in the Bible, and it was in a negative light. And, salvation may be free, (referring one saved, always saved) but it also comes with a responsibility to try to follow the steps of Jesus. We all have temptations and crosses to bear and avoid, but it's up to each of us to try to avoid them and follow in Christ's footsteps. I really become insulted that "once saved, always saved" seems to give "Christians" a reason to live as they want, to do as they please, like spitting in Christ's eyes, because they know they have a place in Heaven. Me, personally, I know I sin every day, in thought, words, & actions, that I DON'T deserve salvation. But God knows my heart, and he knows I will fall from Grace constantly, but he knows if I'm truly trying. So, I pray every day, that my family & I stay on the right path so that when the time comes, that we might be counted worthy, just as St. Paul said about himself. Also, I find it hard to believe that Jesus would die on the cross, overcome death, and then leave his followers floating in the wind for some 1500 years til Luther came along. Yes, in case you couldn't guess, I'm a Catholic, believing that the Catholic church is the ONLY church started by the One and ONLY, Jesus Christ. Not like all the other churches that have been started by Man.
People are making their comments either pro/con on this article. But one thing I’m sure of is that Hitler used a lot of Luther’s writings to promote his agenda. I think in that light, enough said. But on a personal note, a Christian is a Christian, but, Faith without Works was mentioned only one time in the Bible, and it was in a negative light. And, salvation may be free, (referring one saved, always saved) but it also comes with a responsibility to try to follow the steps of Jesus. We all have temptations and crosses to bear and avoid, but it’s up to each of us to try to avoid them and follow in Christ’s footsteps. I really become insulted that “once saved, always saved” seems to give “Christians” a reason to live as they want, to do as they please, like spitting in Christ’s eyes, because they know they have a place in Heaven. Me, personally, I know I sin every day, in thought, words, & actions, that I DON’T deserve salvation. But God knows my heart, and he knows I will fall from Grace constantly, but he knows if I’m truly trying. So, I pray every day, that my family & I stay on the right path so that when the time comes, that we might be counted worthy, just as St. Paul said about himself. Also, I find it hard to believe that Jesus would die on the cross, overcome death, and then leave his followers floating in the wind for some 1500 years til Luther came along. Yes, in case you couldn’t guess, I’m a Catholic, believing that the Catholic church is the ONLY church started by the One and ONLY, Jesus Christ. Not like all the other churches that have been started by Man.
Yes, the Catholic church has some bad history, but corrected itself!! The church that Jesus started was perfect, but then man got involved, and he is fallible, and man has screwed things up at times. So, yes, the Catholic church has its faults, corrected itself, but, it has withstood time, and is the only church that Jesus Christ started, unlike every other church that has been started by man. Also, I find it hard to believe, as I put it in my post above, that Jesus would have died on the cross, overcome death, and then let his followers float in the wind for about 1500 years til Luther came along.
What I think is truly remarkable is how a Church full of such horrible sinners never changed its teaching on a doctrinal matter.
David L. Gray
Dave, do you now have eternal life with the assurance that you will not burn in "purgatory" (if you believe in such a place), or Hell (if you believe in such a place)? This is really the important issue, for you.
With your responses to the above criticisms coupled with your consistently inaccurate statements, the quality of your scholarship and reporting is manifest. It would have been better if you simply admitted your inaccuracies. At least point 2, after correction and re-writing, is accurate.
Over the past 100 years, as the Roman Catholic population has steadily increased in the United States of America so has the predominance of certain behavior. Could gambling, consuming alcohol, prostitution, organized crime, and adultery be related to a particular form of professing “Christianity”? Emmett McLoughlin asks and then answers this question in his book, CRIME & IMMORALITY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. McLoughlin was a Hospital Administrator, ROMAN CATHOLIC FRANCISCAN PRIEST, and Author. Perhaps it is not "godless atheists" that have unraveled the moral fiber of PROTESTANT AMERICA. Ditto, every "protestant" country in the world. As Catholics infiltrate, morals deteriorate. From the pen of another Roman Catholic, Leo H. Lehmann, "The Secret of Catholic Power."
Context is everything.
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2013/09/what-did-luther-mean-by-they-are.html
When by 1520 Luther was fomenting civil war and saying that people should "wash their hands with the blood of the bishops"…that is not out of context. And a quarter million people died in civil wars that he was responsible for fomenting. And, of course, other men had their own ideas of a church they would like, men such as Calviin, Zwingli, etc. And so Protestantism began to split almost immediately and continues to split to this day with tens of thousands saying they understand Scripture yet some Christians are 180 degrees from others in opinions.
He broke his vows and did not bring reformation but revolt. He was a sick man.
Oh this made my day!
Oh this made my day!
Mr. Grey, thank you for the research you have done. Excellent work!
Mr. Grey, thank you for the research you have done. Excellent work!
Thank you Aj for making me LOL
David L. Gray Well done. Mr. Gray. Well done! I am giving a talk on the Church, its beginnings, the institution and the four marks at RCIA this evening. You are correct.
Luther the great reformer??? Anyone who sees a difference between LUTHER and LUCIFER is a blind person.Scriptures alone,faith alone and grace alone are in the Church and not outside of it.
Luther the great reformer??? Anyone who sees a difference between LUTHER and LUCIFER is a blind person.Scriptures alone,faith alone and grace alone are in the Church and not outside.No more details will be given at this moment in these evil days.
I don't know this, thank you for sharing this info. God bless.
I don’t know this, thank you for sharing this info. God bless.
Facts are stubborn things.
Facts are stubborn things.
Luther wasn't anti Jew, he was anti Judaism. Big difference. Hating Jews because of race is a relatively modern conception. He actually consulted with many Jewish teachers during his translation of the OT, that his main Catholic critic Johann Eck criticized him for being TOO pro Jew. Even so, it's not like Roman Catholicism has a clean record on the antisemitism front,bread Chrysostom and Ambrose and what they thought about Jews. Luther was not beyond the pale and was well a product of the long Catholic tradition of hating Jews.
This is totally misleading. In order to understand Luther, one must read his catechisms: The Small Catechism and the Large Catechism. (For the record: I am a Catholic, a convert from Lutheranism.) It is true, of course, that Luther wrote many stupid things, but the Church Fathers are not free from error either. If you want to know how to deal with Lutheran/Protestant doctrine from a Catholic standpoint, read Louis Bouyer.
This is totally misleading. In order to understand Luther, one must read his catechisms: The Small Catechism and the Large Catechism. (For the record: I am a Catholic, a convert from Lutheranism.) It is true, of course, that Luther wrote many stupid things, but the Church Fathers are not free from error either. If you want to know how to deal with Lutheran/Protestant doctrine from a Catholic standpoint, read Louis Bouyer.
Read ALL his writings. They are documentation of his hatred for many peoples. Since then, of course, the protestant denominations have splintered countless times, even the Lutherans who seem to all hate other synods from my experience. As protestants, all are their own ‘popes’. I know many fervent protestants and they go from church to church to church seeking that good feeling or that good preaching. They do not have a home.
Have you checked what St. Augustine said about polygamy? And what about his stance on violence against heretics? Not to mention his doctrine of predestination, which of course influenced Luther. Just to name a few questions and problems. My point is still the same: it is easy to make similar lists of 38 "ridiculous things" said or done by others if you put your mind to it. But this kind of polemics hardly serves to draw informed Lutherans towards the Church.
Thank you David. As a person who was brought up as a Baptist in Rio de Janeiro, I used to wander why my former pastor did not open the church for Sunday School on Reformation Week. LATER at theological college I got to know Luther would persecute Anabaptist and call them angry dogs. Now I am as happy as neve before as an Orthodox Christian and look at the years spent in Protestantism with a little sadness. Ust a little!
Standing from a lay person perspective your article is more effective than the mess modern days Protestantism and the new denominations (mostly Neo-Pentecostal) is making in Brazil. I translated your article and will happily celebrate Reformation Day to the full today. God bless!
Thank you David. As a person who was brought up as a Baptist in Rio de Janeiro, I used to wander why my former pastor did not open the church for Sunday School on Reformation Week. LATER at theological college I got to know Luther would persecute Anabaptist and call them angry dogs. Now I am as happy as neve before as an Orthodox Christian and look at the years spent in Protestantism with a little sadness. Ust a little!
Standing from a lay person perspective your article is more effective than the mess modern days Protestantism and the new denominations (mostly Neo-Pentecostal) is making in Brazil. I translated your article and will happily celebrate Reformation Day to the full today. God bless!
Thank you Marcos! Blessings!
This, from people that worship Mary……lol
This, from people that worship Mary……lol
Protestants esp evangelicals are the one who falsely worship God, from their infallible celebrity pastors – prosperity gospel ministers, false prophets / end timers, pro-is*raHELL preachers, from their unbiblical doctrines such as rapture, dispensationalism, sola fide, sola scriptura, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, pre-destination, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation and endless heresies, I’m not even counting Masonic established cults such as Mormons, SDA & Jehovah’s witness…. LOL.
Protestants, historically perverted the bible such as the Geneva bible, Mormon bible, Schonfield bible, Lamsa bible, Moffat bible, Godspeed bible, King James bible, New King James version bible, New International Bible, and countless more.
Attacks against the veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary comes from the lodges of these so called Christian ministers which dates back to the 17th century when the Rothschild banking family financed Albert Pike, Masons to wage their 2nd covert war / subversion on the Catholic Church. That is why every anti-Catholic attack and mockery against the Catholic Church is echoed from their lodges. Their hatred for the Blessed Virgin Mary is rooted on this verse (Gen 3:15).
Evangelicals have made Christianity a mockery through endless fast-food chains of churches (although they are not really) – 40,000+ claiming that they are from the truth which is a travesty bec all they have done is confused and divide people up to the point that when the minister is old or dead they look again to pick and choose another one that fits their personality from these chains and same process once again – wash, rinse and repeat.
Protestantism, since its inception has also weakened society, from pluralistic Christianity to secularism to aetheism and onward to satanism which is very evident now in every facet of society starting from the banking, economic, culture & media sectors. We have seen this destroy the whole Western Europe.
Megachurches are one of their last legs, they now want to gather all those scattered flocks into one big rock concert arena complete with big screens and bands with another celebrity pastor on the wings, no doubt they will attract a large amount of youth just like MTV, pop music bands and other pop culture establishment, but just like pop culture when these youth’s grow old they eventually disappear to oblivion.
The RCC’s doctrines are also at fault so…
RCCs doctrines are based on Scripture, Tradition (capital “T”), Magisterium and revelation from the Saints unlike Evangelicals it is based on the unbiblical sola scriptura, hypocrisy, personality of the preacher/televangelists, present time beliefs and my sole interpretation only.
Nobody worships Mary. …… lol
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/10/luther-i-look-upon-god-no-better-than.html
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/10/luther-i-look-upon-god-no-better-than.html
This is terribly dishonest. These quotes have been badly taken out of their context. Argue for your faith, but do so honestly and with integrity.
This is terribly dishonest. These quotes have been badly taken out of their context. Argue for your faith, but do so honestly and with integrity.
David, if you pursue your studies with honesty and diligence you will sooner or later realize the errors in your reasoning and the need to be fair even to people you dislike (such as Luther). Good luck!
I would class this more as ignorance than stupidity, but then there are many protestants who have this mistaken belief about Catholics. If they were to study the Catechism, together with the Bible, how many would turn to Catholicism? How many have already done so by this same route?
What book of which Greek bible that you've read an abundance of times in your gaining such tremendous theological textual expertise did you find that he'd written? I just have the KJB. I don't speak Hebrew, Greek, Syriac, Latin, and German like you do, so I guess the orthodox church god could have just kept the book of Luther out of the hundreds and hundreds of the English translations. I guess you have to leave those kinds of things up to the multilingual experts and PhD trained and educated like you St Harrington.
catholic church is the best and is found by jesus christ (hey , he is ur god, but he found us)
Jesus said to st.peter”And I tell you, you are Peter,[a] and on this rock[b] I will build my church, and the powers of death[c] shall not prevail against it” BELIEVE IT OR NOT ST PETER WAS THE FIRST POPE OF THE ONE UNIVERSAL HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Probably not…http://www.remnantofgod.org/pope1.htm
I think God founded the church, which isn’t specifically catholic
PROTESTANT BIBLE -ONLY HAS 66 BOOKS
CATHOLIC BIBLE HAS 73 BOOKS
HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED THE EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH TO WRITE THE BIBLE … ITS A FACT
Not really…
http://carm.org/errors-apocrypha
(To your credit..Luther tried to remove the last couple of Paul’s letters from the bible)
Faria, clearly Paul quoted quite extensively from the Septuagint (http://www.davidlgray.info/blog/2011/06/in-romans-st-paul-quoted-themed-heavily-from-the-book-of-wisdom/). Moreover, the apparent-interpretive issues that that article’s author finds with Tobit, Judith, and Baruch people can find with any book of the Bible. The Septuagint was the accepted Old Testament for 1500 years before Protestants rejected it for reasons that solely had to do with their theology. For example where Sirach speaks extensively of free-will as not something that Calvinist could overcome. Also by what authority did those protestants remove books of the Bible?
I don’t want to lie.Honestly, I don’t know….my bible has worked pretty well for me and I don’t really think I’ll be missing out on anything if I don’t have the Apocrypha….God’s expectations are pretty clear in the 66 books.
Well if you actually read those books you might feel different. I know I did after I became a Catholic. I felt a bit angry that those books were kept from me, especially the book of Wisdom where you find a prophecy about Jesus in Chapter 2.
I guess there’s no harm in looking into these books so I’ll give it a shot… God bless 🙂
Sounds great Farai. God loves a humble heart. You have one.
God loves a humble heart…but only if they submit to Rome. Read between the lines.
By the way, Lutherans have never taken books out of the Bible. We make use of the Deuterocanonical books in our liturgy and prayer offices.
I never submitted to Rome. I submitted to the Apostolic truth, and THAT is the one necessary thing. Luther’s truth does not require assent.
Better not use the newer King James Bibles then because they don’t have the books that were in the original King James and Geneva Bibles. Look it up.
Protestants don’t reject the Septuagint. My goodness Mr. Gray, most of the arguments you make are sloppy at best. Look into conservative Protestant theology a little more and you might be surprised at what you find. Much of your ranting will have to stop, because it’s simply not true.
Never heard of a protestant sect that regards the septuagint as the inspired Word of God without exception. Never seen a Protestant Bible that is ordered like Catholic Bible.
The King James and Geneva Bibles had the books accepted by the Council of Carthage until after 1885. It is a FACT that embarrasses the heck out of Protestants. It is dead easy to prove too. Just look on the Internet or go to an antique store and check out King James Bibles published in 1835. Whoomp! There it is.
The fact that the later editions changed shows you that “Their lips are moving but they LIE LIE LIE LIE.”
The fact that the King James Bible AND the Geneva Bible had 73 books in the Old Testament and tossed them out in 1885 shows me that many of the Protestant churches LIE LIE LIE. Don’t believe me? Look it up! I personally saw a King James Bible printed in 1835 with all the books intact. Yet now where are they? The Council of Carthage decided what books belonged in the Bible. (Look that up too) And then hundreds of years later some yo-yo brained twit comes along and says, “Those books don’t belong in the Bible” Really?
Wow…that’s something…still protestant.
ha ha..that’s why they are called PROTEST..ANT..No matter what, they will be in protest! But from what I must ask? There is a “true church” out there, is there not?
Depends on your definition of Church….I personally think that a true church is a body of true believers where ever they might be -NO denomination or church can claim to be the one true church although they can be very truthful in what they affirm… Whether Catholic or Protestant…Personally, although I disagree with some catholic doctrines, I don’t think it would be fair to completely discount the entire RCC s some people do.
Well, my definition of “Church” is straight from the Bible.
1 Corinthians 12:12 “For even as the body is ONE and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are ONE body, so ALSO is Christ.”…Ephesians 4:4 “There is ONE body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling”..Matthew 7:24-27 “Upon this rock I build my CHURCH”..(one church..not multiple)..Matthew: 18 17 “”If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile” ONE BODY..ONE CHURCH..the FULLNESS of Faith
Yes…the body is one….assembled of true believers. True believers being those who were baptised in the holy spirit if you keep reading 1 Corinthians 12. The true church is the collection of believers-not the followers of a specific denomination.
The verse you cited in Matthew 18 is talking about sinning brothers/sisters. I don’t believe that it is “sinning” to disagree with the teachings of a church which are clearly wrong.
I could argue with you about why the RCC isn’t the one true church but I don’t have time for that. I do believe that there are true believers in the RCC though.
May God bless you 🙂
Farai what you are essentially talking about this the Protestant doctrine of the invisible Church, which is completely unscriptural. I dealt with that troubling interpretation of ‘Church’ in this article —> http://catholiclane.com/refuting-the-myth-of-the-invisible-church/
The very existence of Protestantism proves the divinity of the Catholic Church ; for there must have been dogmatic truth before it could be denied, and there could not have been dogmatic truth without authority. To protest against authority is to admit authority ; for the act of protest is the personal assertion of authority, the only difference between the Catholic and the Protestant (in regard to this one question of authority) being that the Catholic says it resides in the teaching Church, whereas the Protestant says it resides in his own person.
My friend, keep in mind that there was no such thing as Christians until Christ came to earth. Who took it from there? Well, if you take the time to read the men who not only surrounded Christ but His Apostles’ disciples..they CLEARLY taught doctrine that very closely resembles CATHOLIC doctrine INCLUDING, the Eucharist, Perpetual virginity, the nature of Christ being God..etc…the FULL TRUTH is out there, I know I have found it from the evidence I have discovered for myself.
‘I personally think’ – no other authority but your own. That’s the protestant way.
Yes there is & it is the Roman Catholic Church. Praise be to God. No matter what u say to Protestants they are going to disagree with u anyway.
This guy had a real problem with authority.
He wrote it all on the toilet.
Matthew 24:4-7, 11, 24-26 KJB: “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. . . 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. . . 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.”
Luke 21:8-9 KJB: “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. 9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.”
1 John 4:1-6 KJB: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”
2 Peter 2:1-3 KJB: “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.”
John 3:16-18, 36 KJB: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
“For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man CHRIST JESUS;”
—1 Timothy 2:5 KJB
“Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.”
—John 14:6 KJB
“Neither is there salvation IN ANY OTHER: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.”
—Acts 4:12 KJB
“And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep YOUR OWN TRADITION. … Making the word of God of none effect through YOUR tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”
—Mark 7:9, 13 KJB
“And this is his commandment,
THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST,
and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
—1 John 3:23 KJB
“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: HE THAT BELIEVETH IN ME, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
—John 11:25 KJB
“But as many as received HIM, (Christ Jesus) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:”
—John 1:12 KJB
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
—Romans 10:9-10, 13 KJB
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
—John 3:36 KJB
“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
—Romans 14:11 KJB
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
John 13:16-18 KJB
John 12:47-48 KJB: “And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
“. . BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED . . ”
—Acts 16:31 KJB
The pope and the papal system is nothing more than an earthly organization designed to centralize earthly wealth and power. The pope is nothing more than a sinful man in need of a savior and the virgin Mary was a sinful woman chosen by God to bear the savior and she has no influence or power beyond being the vessel chosen by God to bring the Second Person of the holy trinity incarnate.
Luther exposed the papal system as man’s invention. Christianity is open to all with out any earthly and earthy intermediaries. The veil into the holy of holies was torn asunder by God once for all.
Sincerely,
David Parker
Being that this post spits in the face of 2,000 years of Christian tradition and Scripture, while elevating a lunatic to the level of a saint, I’m inclined to dismiss it as mere ramblings of a drunk or a person who NEEDS to believe what he says, because he knows the consequences of being humble enough to dare himself to be wrong . . .
Um, if you want to talk about traditions with evidential support, the Ancient Church of the East and the Jacobites are just as well supported as the Catholic, just because you guys took over Europe and they got smashed in the 13th-15th centuries by Muslim crack-downs; in fact, the lack of persecution that Catholics have faced counts against their being the true church (God’s people are despised in this world).
The Jacobites and Gnostics are just as well documented and patristic as the Catholics, and let’s face it, you guys basically co-opted the Marcionite church.
Pretending that Catholicism is either original or well-documented flies in the face of everything that archeologists and scholars of religion have known since the 19th century. But, not having the Protestant Reformation, your church is content to repeat fairy tales and superstitions and self-congratulatory and imaginary histories.
Oh please lady
“… 2,000 years of Christian tradition and Scripture”?
My argument is that the universal church has been around since Eve looked to God for a Messiah: The papal superstition that calls itself the Roman “Catholic” Church (or whatever you call the papal organization) is the upstart.
“… mere ramblings of a drunk or a person who NEEDS to believe what he says, because he knows the consequences of being humble enough to dare himself to be wrong … “?
I don’t know what you have been taking, but I hope you recover. The real deal is over how we are saved from the wrath of God that we so justly deserve. Luther had the courage to face the murderous papal establishment and point out that salvation cannot be by any form of works, that there is no “treasury of merit”, that all our good deeds are as filty rags in the sight of God absent his assignment, etc. In the Universal (Catholic) Church every man appeals directly to God in the name of Jesus, the only intercessor. Take your “prayers” to Mary and the saints elsewhere, God doesn’t need any help looking after his elect and working out his eternal plan.
Sincerely,
David Parker
1, I agree with point 1, but you have to make the distinction – I do so in my article – The 7 Historical Marks of the Church in the Kingdom of God (http://www.davidlgray.info/blog/2013/11/the-7-historical-marks-of-the-catholic-church/)
2. Here you also agree with the Catholic Church. Salvation is not by works of alone, and that you can take you prayers to Jesus alone, but you are wrong about intercessory prayer. You can ask me to pray for you, just ask you can the saints in Heaven. At no point in time do people stop loving God, and those in Heaven love Him perfect. The first fruit of love is serving God, and the saints in Heaven do that perfectly. If you don’t believe in intercessory prayer with the Saints, I dare you to ask Mary to help you with a spiritual need!!!!
He’s not going to do that. Neither is he going to examine the implications of what Luther said in the light of the Gospel. That’s too scary.
Blah, blah, blah, blah… good luck with that, Korah.
But your statement does not erase what Luther said.
Hail Mary Full of Grace……she was not ever sinful….ever as she was FULL of Grace….. she was the ark of the covenant…perfect…I pray she asks her son to have mercy on you and open your eyes to the evil you espouse…..
Do you even try to source your quotes? For God’s sake, half of those are well-known to invented by propagandists who probably had no more love for the Catholic than the Reformed church.
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/11/luther-it-does-not-matter-how-christ.html
Seriously, lazy, lazy.
Do you always comment before you read the entire article and others comments, or was your response just the by-product of your mystical freedom? 😀
Luther did say that the Epistle of James was straw. Lutherans have even quoted that. I understand that Luther didn’t like the implcations of the Epistle but who was he to say it was “straw”?
This blog post is intellectually and historically infantile.
Considering that this blog post consists of only what Martin Luther stated, I agree 100%. Thank you!
How is what he posted infantile?
“In those cases, Swan’s intellectually honesty is betrayed by his passion for Luther.”
Kind of like how Gray’s intellectual honesty is betrayed by his hatred for Luther…
How precisely when these are quotes from the man himself? Bare assertion means nothing. Mr. Gray explained his position, have the courtesy to do likewise and illustrate the intellectual dishonesty you allege.
I don’t think he hates Luther at all. He’s just stating why he thinks Luther is cuckoo. You can question Luther’s sanity without hating him. Shrinks do it all the time.